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Bengal Cat Forums • View topic - Queens and desexed girls?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:16 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:42 pm
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
We (my daughter, Alyssa, and myself) have just acquired a beautiful 13 week old breeding girl, Kira. We are contracted to her breeder as family home care - meaning that Kira lives in her forever home NOW while being one of their breeding queens, and we are contracted to four litters. Kira goes back to the breeder for mating, and again when her kittens are due through to when they are weaned. After the four litters, she will be desexed and come to live with us permanently. The breeder finds that her cats are much happier this way, and there is no stress of having to locate a forever home for an older cat when most buyers desire kittens. For this, we get the peace of mind of all health screening and making sure our baby is ok.

We are thinking of getting a second bengal to provide a playmate for Kira, and also kitty company for us when Kira isn't at home. I have been told that some entire queens can get really moody and cranky and hormonal, and hate having other girls around. Is this a problem with desexed girls, or just other entires? Would it be a constant problem, or just a sometimes thing? What types of behaviour would one expect in this situation, and would anyone recommend yes or no for this idea? I have no intention of getting a second cat and then giving anyone up because they can't be together, so I'd rather make the right decision up front instead of upsetting our girl.

I'm sure there will be lots of other questions along the way. I've never had a breeding girl before, and have no idea what I'm in for!

Kelly (and Alyssa) (and Kira)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:54 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
I have to say that I find this arrangement very odd indeed... :confused:

I breed and I can't think of anything more stressful to a pregnant (about to give birth) cat than to be carted off to another home to have kittens. I also find it odd that the breeder will have a cat back into her home from outside in order to give birth....

I wonder how she keeps the queens and kittens? They would have to be isolated from any existing cats or there is a potential problem with cross infection etc...

Who pays for the health screening prior to mating? And any other health needs, vaccinations etc...?

Entire girls can be extremely annoying. Calling girls is a nightmare, noisy and desperate to get out to find a mate. They often spray. The calling behaviour is upsetting to neutered cats often and a pregnant cat can be quite aggressive if she feels threatened.on the other hand, a pregnant cat will not want to play, especially rough, with another cat so this can cause issues.

I admit to been puzzled by the arrangement and can only see that it benefits the breeder and not the cat.

Sorry.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:33 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
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Location: UK


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:38 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:00 am
Posts: 4490
Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Yea, ditto, I just don't understand why you would do such a thing. Seems really bizarre, especially when you are grieving for your other cat and needing a new dedicated friend, for your child especially. I just don't see the benefit to you, or "your" new cat in this arrangement. If I were you I'd change the arrangement so that you got your pick of the first litter, and then give the queen back to the breeder permanently :biggrin:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:44 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:42 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Ok, so a second cat is a no, then.

The contract stipulates one litter per year, and an absolute minimum 9 months between so that she has time to fully recover. The breeder pays for all screening and health related issues and has a pet cardiology specializing vet come from interstate once a year to run a series of tests on all of her breeders. She has multiple areas within her home for mothers and kittens, and socialists them together after the first vaccinations. They are in a home environment throughout, and treated as family with her four kids and dog. The four litters is maximum, and the contract actually protects her in case of not wanting a full four, however there can never be more. If she feels that breeding is bad for my cat, or there is any other problem with the pregnancy or litter, she is entitled to have Kira desexed and returned to us as a pet. She is liable for all screening and medical expenses outside of normal per ownership, so I get the yearly vaccination, and worm and flea treatments.

She has been doing this for years and said she finds it more stressful for the queens to be caged or kept together, and then have to settle with families as an older cat. She has a maximum distance that per owners can love from her property in order to lessen the stress on the animal. If I were to break the contract in any way, such as desexing the cat or moving out of the aforementioned zone, I am liable to pay an agreed upon fee. Any breakage of contract results in desexing her, and she is out pet.

If we are obviously neglecting her, she is able to be taken back by the breeder. The types of situation in which this can occur has been stipulated within the contract, and is not something that would occur.

The benefits to me are that my cat is frequently screened for diseases such as HCM, so that I can choose preventative medicine for her rather than lose her as we did with Linden. I also get the pick of any litter at a heavily discounted pet price, were I to want one of the babies.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:10 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:42 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Adelaide, Australia
FWIW, I did discuss it with a vet, who felt this was actually a really good programme. My vet, not hers. His understanding of the situation was that it was good for the queens to have their forever homes sorted, and agreed with the breeder's estimation that it would be less stressful on the cats.

She seems to legitimately care about the wellbeing of Kira, and has checked in a few times to see how she is settling in, and requested frequent photos and updates.

After having lost Linden as suddenly and catastrophically as we did, the timing and availability of this offer actually seemed serendipitous. I want to do the right thing by my cat, and am fully supported by an experienced breeder along the way. It's not like I applied for a breeding license on a whim, purchased a few breeding cats, and decided to jump in on the breeders circuit without any foreknowledge of what I'm getting into. I'm not haphazardly introducing further problems into the breed, I'm not a backyard breeder, I'm a forever home to a girl that would have otherwise needed to resettle in five years. A girl who was ready to take home now to help mend Alyssa's broken heart. And we have absolute visiting rights after the first week following the birth of the kittens, which the breeder encourages of all of her families to provide consistency and support to the cats.

When we first got Linden, and I fell in love with the breed, my then husband and I were toying with the idea of registering, educating ourselves, and becoming breeders, striving to better the breed. Because it is such a new breed I am aware that many of the health factors have not been bred out, and nefarious conduct by some breeders, especially backyard breeders, has been detrimental to the breed as a whole. It is still something that occasionally plays on my mind. That said, if I have trouble handling four years with a queen, I will know it's not something that I can deal with, or would ever seek to do. In my mind, that's far healthier than setting up a cattery and then screwing everything up because I have zero clue and wasn't in the least prepared.

I love that she is screened for so many potential issues, and not just prior to breeding. For the life of the cat. Because if she ever tests positive for HCM, her lines will be instantly removed from any breeding programme, in the interests of improving the health of the breed. Not just HCM, a bunch of things that I can't remember off the top of my head, and while I am awake at 2:30am here in Australia it doesn't mean I'm at all willing to climb out of bed to seek out the contract. HCM is the biggie for me, having just lost my baby so suddenly and catastrophically to a blood clot. I want HCM eradicated.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:34 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:17 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:42 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Adelaide, Australia
I've signed a contract.

I'm here for support and advice to try to do the best thing possible for my cat. Within my contract. I understand that you guys feel we have gotten the raw end of the deal, and have made a bad decision. It had been done. Now, if we can move on, I want to do the right thing by my cat within the set boundaries. My question was about getting her a playmate, and that has been answered. Going in circles about how the breeder has such a good deal and I'll regret this is supremely unhelpful. Tips on getting through this would be awesome.

My cat will be screened annually while breeding, and biennially thereafter. By the breeder, in the interests of improving her lines. The vet who treated Linden said that once cats have tested positive to HCM they can be medicated to prevent clots and such, so we can avoid what happened to Linden. She said that the biggest problem was that the first presentation is usually the fatal one, as it was with my baby. If I can avoid this going forward, that's a win for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:53 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:39 pm
Posts: 314
Location: Las Cruces, NM

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:11 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:42 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Adelaide, Australia
As mentioned earlier, she will be screened for a bunch of things. It is currently 4:30am here, and I'm not rummaging through my house for the contract.

It include pk-def, tf something or other, a few other bits and pieces.

When did this forum become so bitter? It used to be helpful. Attacks on BYB I can understand, and clearly this is not the case here. Looking through other posts this place seems to have lost its humanity as much as the rest of civilization - probably why we all enjoy the company of our cats so much more than other humans - but can we stop treating each other as if we're all idiots?

I get that she will yowl and spray and carry on. My terminology of "getting through this" was a response to all the negativity that has been suggested.

We can either HELP people, or drive them away to go forth and do the completely wrong thing. I get it. I've already done the wrong thing. Now MOVING ON, I will do my damnedest to make this the most positive experience that I can. For my cat, and for my family.

I'll post what she is tested for when it is reasonable-o'clock and I'm less likely to wake my 5yo with lights and noises. Rest assured, it is a pretty extensive set. My concentration on HCM is because I am so utterly devastated by the loss of my girl, I was told her lines were clear of this when I bought her, I didn't know it could show up later, I have learned the hardest way one could hope to learn.

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:16 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:31 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:42 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Thanks Elaine.

The vet mentioned blood thinners or the likes to reduce the probability of clots? She mentioned other meds of which the name eludes me at present (I haven't slept in a week unless chemically induced), but recall it in some old threads on FIP treatment. Some kind of beta blockers or the likes. Or I might be dreaming. She seemed to feel that there were options in diagnosed cats that weren't available upon first onset of symptoms.

I have no idea. I'm struggling with just not constantly crying at present. I miss her so much


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:39 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:00 am
Posts: 4490
Location: Portland Oregon, USA

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The little monsters 3


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:46 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:42 pm
Posts: 713
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Brian, it was more in the repetitive nature of doom gloom doom gloom doom gloom, despite having asked to move on. And the paragraph you quoted mentioned reading other threads, not just what was on here. But thanks for your personal attack on me and helping demonstrate the point.

Now. Moving on. Please. Can we attempt to help each other instead of dwelling on how I'm a terrible person for signing a contract that I am now bound to? That would be awesome. Believe me, I feel terrible enough. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:39 pm
Posts: 314
Location: Las Cruces, NM

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