Repeat matings?

Suntouched · **Posted:** Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:43 pm

A few months ago I heard about a large litter of (5 or 6) Bengals being born, with a couple of kittens with serious health problems. One of these very nearly died (had collapsed 3 times), but did survive and I think appears fit and healthy (to a degree) now they are more mature.

I have heard similar stories over the years, with litters of kittens being born with between 1-3 that have either: Cleft palate, Flat or funnel (or barrel) chest or even Spina Bifida (and other defects)......ALL OF WHICH ARE SERIOUS PROBLEMS!

My question to breeders is:
IF you produced a litter with 1 or 2 (or more) afflicted kittens, would you repeat the very same mating again, or would you choose another 'partner' for your bengal, that is from completely different lines?

(This question is to experienced and new breeders alike...the latter of which I expect will have done research and sought advice before starting breeding?)

Luke · **Joined:** Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:41 am **Posts:** 1240

DianeM · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:47 pm

I stand to be corrected here but from my point of view you wouldn't know which cat i.e. mother or father carried the fault if it was genetic would you? Therefore, if you paired either to another cat from another line you would still run a 50% risk of a problem occurring. Therefore I would be reluctant to re-mate either cat personally.
Hope I'm not interefering in your thread Suntouched

Suntouched · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:15 pm

Diane...your comments are welcomed, as are anyone else's.

I think the reason for mating the parents to other cats from a different line would give the breeder a better idea of which cat carries the fault, if there is a genetic fault there. If one parent then goes on to produce the same fault again then that cat should be neutered. If the other parent cat produces fit and healthy kittens with another cat(s) he/she could go on with breeding, and the breeder would also know more about any/all previous offspring from each of those cats.

I understand what Meemonkey says, but personally I would never repeat a mating that produced SERIOUS defects (like spina bifida, cleft palates or serious FCK) where kittens are likely to die.

Breeders often have different ideas and mostly they are only trying to do what they think is best.
Unfortunately there are still those out there who will repeat a mating regardless of the danger, simply because of the £ signs!!!

(and I do NOT mean anyone here! :lol:

)

JMHO, and I am interested to hear what other breeders think? What would you do?

Tally-Isham · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:37 pm

DianeM · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:00 pm

Tally-Isham · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:08 pm

DianeM · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:12 pm

junglerose · **Posted:** Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:36 pm

I think it depends what breeders are comfortable with, if you have a kitten with a serious fault and the kitten survives and will lead a normal life, then you may feel it is OK to try that mating again.
But you have to be prepared for the next litter to have the same faults and perhaps lose a kitten or even many kittens. Some people can take that risk others cannot.

I feel that many of these faults are endemic in the breed and although in your own personal program you can breed away from such defects you do not know what others are doing so you could cull all parents of certain defects to replace with cats who have the same or even worse problems, not everyone in the breed will tell you the truth about their lines.

Of course, if it is a recessive condition, then by producing an affected kitten, both parents must carry the fault, so there is no need to do another mating with another line to establish "guilt".

Recessives and polygenic faults are notoriously difficult to get rid of, so even if you haven't seen a defect for a long time, then mated with the right cat ie another carrier your girl could have lots of defective kittens or the whole problem may not surface until the next generation, ie she produces carriers.
As most Bengals are related to each other in some way it would not be difficult to assume that recessive defects are quite common in the breed.

I think however whatever decision breeders make about whether to repeat matings or not, it is definitely not good practice to breed cats who actually have a fault whether that is FCK, a heart murmur, patellar luxation, hip dysplasia, PRA, cataracts, HCM or anything else that is suspected or proven to be genetic.

Decorus · **Posted:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:40 pm

Luke · **Joined:** Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:41 am **Posts:** 1240

junglerose · **Posted:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:09 pm

abooksigun · **Posted:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:06 pm

I agree with what has been said too Elaine. I also feel as you rightly say that we are in effect messing with nature as 'we' decide who goes with who, again which you correctly point out is not natural selection. I know a very experienced breeder points out that 'we' don't know what is carried fully until the 3rd generation. How true this is I don't know as a beginner, but it is something that I have in my head.

I have to agree that thinking along the lines of most defects being a genetic basis makes complete sense. Again I just want to point out that I am new & this is based on my limited experience.

Decorus · **Posted:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:26 pm

oh dear!! I think I have been misunderstood.

I do NOT mean that we should sterilise humans at all - I thought I was questioning that obviously we DON'T do that to humans but we do neuter cats if the same genetic problems occur and if that was the correct way forward.

Mammals concieving is all comparable, regardless of the species - cats, humans, horses, dogs etc..... genetics is genetics.

The only difference is that humans do not sell their babies (well, one hopes not) but because breeders of animals have to conform to the duty of goods act, we have to ensure the genetics are squeaky clean otherwise people have the 'right' to have us for it.

I wasn't making a statement for people to jump on me, I was asking questions.

Suntouched · **Posted:** Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:42 pm

Jen, please don't worry and don't let it put you off posting?
Us folks who are not used to Forums and posting things in the 'correct' (and careful) manner, can appear to be 'jumped on' at times (you and me alike!) :lol:

I think it is a course of getting to know someone and their way of putting things across?

There have been some very interesting points put across from several directions here, and there are some very valid points from each and every posting, so we must all try and be kind to each other........... we are all entitled to our views and try to express them quite innocently sometimes?? :wink:

Let's just enjoy this Forum for what it is....Friendly, informative and enjoyable...by ALL!?

Repeat matings?

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