Following on from a recent thread on this subject, I wondered what other breeders would do if an entire male or female Bengal that you homed hadn't produced kittens by the time they were 3 years old?

This is irrespective of what may be written into a contract, but what you as a responsible breeder thinks is the 'right' thing to do in this situation? Would you offer the owner a replacement cat or a (partial) refund for example?

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Best Wishes,
Maddy

I think the only fair thing to do is to offer the difference in price from pet price to breeding price - imo

I have had this and the breeder replaced her for me, although I dont like the word replaced and you cant replace them. Id do the same

When this happened to us we were simply told "this must be expected from time to time in the breeding world" and that was, basically, the end of it! With another, a queen we purchased who had previously produced for another breeder did not for us. We had her neutered and the vet found cystic ovaries ... again we were told "that can happen to any cat at any time" and they never spoke to us again.

If it were us in their position it would have to depend on the circumstances - if they were using a young novice male then we would first offer to take the queen to one of our studs or recommend they try elsewhere if that was not suitable. If they have used proven studs (as in our case, 3 long proven males) then we would either replace entirely or offer the difference between pet and breeder price, whichever they preferred.

I have to say, though, that I (and others I've spoken to) have found a pattern in the lines we have had breeding problems with. I also found the same with FCK - I stopped using the three related queens who gave us this in every litter and we've had no further issues.

thanks for your answer hubblebub, so you mean you never got any contact after those Breeders told you "it can happen" (means we can do nothing)? what you did after with those females you couldnt breed? Did you try any artificial insemination?

Usualy in the Contract says that cat was sold as a Breeding cat with warranty... Wasnt it possible for to fight against Breeder for the right of finding any solution (not necessary money, but any solution atlist ONCE)? In some contracts says that you cant Breed male with any other female that not belong to you personaly... So the male we can forget... But if you try to breed a female (from this couple that cant make babies) you have no right to sell her kittens not sterilised, so.... who from realy good breeders with realy good cats would help you if they know they cant get back even a one nice kitten - valuable exactly for breaders? High qwality female should have a high qwality male... other wise its a nonsense to make her breed with any other bengal cat of any quality... or just to be sure that she is fertile....?

P.S.: and yes, cats are totaly new, were never with other male/female

Basically, yes - there was no contact after their e-mail saying "these things must be expected" ... We had the girls neutered and found them pet homes as they were fairly young. We thought about "going after" the breeders involved but this usually leaves the novice looking like the bad one because established breeders usually have a strong network of friends and associates that will defend them.

My reply was a more general one to Maddy's question but I notice in your case that the breeder has already replaced two cats due to illness and faults - and now with these fertility issues that you are having, I would seriously ask myself if these are lines I want to begin a (hopefully) life long breeding programme with. It is upsetting and maddening but I, personally, would walk away from this breeder and start with someone trustworthy, honest and reputable. If the breeder were to give in at this point and offer you another couple of cats, would you think they would be there for you this time? Would you want to accept more cats after having twice had issues with their lines?

Also, I see you wrote the breeder has said that she has had problems like this herself. Although I am in no way justifying their actions, it might help a little to see it from their side. If they have had issues like we have had where they were told "these things happen" and she has already replaced two cats for you then she could well be thinking "why should I be the one who bends over backwards when nobody has for me" ... the cat world can be cruel and she may feel that she has already done much more for you than anyone has done for her. I know I have, at times, felt like an idiot for being so helpful with new breeders who do not appreciate the time and cost involved in helping them when I know if they had gone to the "big names" they would have been sold a package and sent on their way. Like I say, that is not to justify her actions, just that a little understanding might ease your anger. Take pity, get cats from stronger lines and meet her on the show bench with your progeny. There is no greater feeling than beating those who spoke ill of you or who screwed you over in the beginning I hope the situation is resolved for you soon and it hasn't put you off

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Best Wishes,
Maddy

thank you for a good advise Tally-Isham, time pasted, and I couldnt stay calm this time...

after we sterelised both cats I told to myself to calm down, and thats what I did. But yesterday my male diyed at Orbe Clinique (Switzerland)
First diagnostik of blood showed that he had Hepatite, the liquid from lungs showed cancer... radiography showed that he had a liver cancer.
Vet from the clinique said its almost impossible for a 4 y.o. cat to develop this kind of desiase and he thinks its genetical.

there are some limits on keeping mouth closed (after I had a problem with 2 cats on 4 and final result was - no kittens..) but here I am with 3 ill cats on 4 isnt it little bit too much? :(

I could understand if Breeder was still helping by trying to find a solution when i asked for help after we couldnt get babies in 4 years, but i was knoking in a closed door. Even though i found the strength to shut up... But now i lost one of the cats, and what if i could breed and spred out lots of kittens from ill male with a liver cancer?

I think an important thing to look at is the fact that most breeders can't afford to keep replacing kittens/cats! Some can't afford to replace them once! I know it's a hard time and you lost your baby! Try to stay positive and don't let this breeder get the best of you! If it were me I would honestly consider it a blessing that your male didn't breed, if he did you would be in the position to replace the kittens that got cancer early in life! I honestly couldn't bare the thought of knowing I put unhealthy kittens into homes of loving families!

As far as breeding cats go, I see both sides of this! While I am not a breeder and I have never lost thousands due to an infertile cat, I can see how some breeders say its one of those things! There is no guarantee that a cat can produce, even from the best lines! IMO it's a bit like Russian roulette, you are gambling that money the second you pay for a breeding cat! It would be great to have a breeder that is at least responsible enough to give you the difference between pet and breeder, but if I were purchasing with the intent to breed I wouldn't expect the breeder to! In reality not many would!!! There are to many BYB and unethical breeders out there, if you want to be protected have a written contract with the breeder before purchasing, also have in the contract that the seller will be responsible for any financial cost associated with legal actions and vet care to prove the cat is not fertile! You have to look at this as a business and an investment and protect yourself in anyway possible! (Please don't think I mean the cats a business, I mean the financial and legal side of it)

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yes, I had a writen contract that cats are sold as BREEDING cats. Breeder didnt respect the contract. I put publicly all information on Facebook, all that this breeder could say is insulting me, my life, my job, my private life and even my child of 11 months old!
I new in what I am engaged by making it public, but i posted all proves of documents on all the story, she is ignoring even other people saying to her that she didnt respect the contract...

euh... atlist I put out her black side publicly and all people can read and think themselves...

I couldnt breed, so maybe my mision is to put the light on dark side of some Breeders? :D